Thursday, August 11, 2011

M's No Self Realization - Tuesday, August 9, 2011 4:04PM

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 9:32 AM, msec wrote:

I would be grateful for any help you could give me in finding a trigger for this.

Best wishes


On 31 Jul 2011, at 01:17, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Sure. Be glad to help out.

Let me ask a series of questions, and you answer with 100% certainty. The only thing I ask is that you examine it carefully, and be sure of the answer. I won't give you answers myself, at least not to the first questions, but will let you know if you're on the right track.

Sound good? :)

first question:

What influences thoughts?

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 5:42 AM, msec wrote:

Thank you

Answer to first question: What influences thoughts?

Past and present experiences and future expectations.

On 1 Aug 2011, at 00:54, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Yes. Thank you.

What form does that influence take? In other words, what happens when there is experience? How does it affect thought? And what form does "expectations" take?


On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 8:30 PM, msec wrote:

What happens when there is an experience? It is analysed and judged to be good or bad, pleasant or unpleasant.

How does it influence thought? Good experiences result in thoughts of joy and love. Unpleasant experiences lead to thoughts of fear, anger and hatred.

What form does expectation take? Similar experiences will lead to similar results and similar thoughts/ feelings.

Thank you

Best wishes


On 2 Aug 2011, at 02:35, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Ok. Good!

So would you say that thought influences thought? Would that be an accurate statement?

Feel free to check this statement to be sure it's 100% accurate in your experience.


On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:27 AM, msec wrote:

Thank you

Yes thought does influence thought.


On 3 Aug 2011, at 01:08, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Excellent. Thanks, Md.

Next question. :) What influences beliefs?


On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:37 PM, msec wrote:

Thank you

Thoughts influence beliefs.


On 4 Aug 2011, at 01:34, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Do you have a cheat sheet? ;)

Right again!

Next, the last question of this kind.....What inifluences self concepts?


On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Msec wrote:

Thank you

No cheat sheet, just getting lucky I guess!

Experiences, thoughts and beliefs influence self concepts.


On 5 Aug 2011, at 00:41, Thassa Amzwar wr ote:

Yes. Thoughts influence self concepts.

And let's break the rest down some.

Experiences, through thought, influence self concepts.

Beliefs, influenced through thought, influence self concepts.

Are those two statements 100% true in your reality, your experience?


On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Msec wrote:

Yes they are true.


On 5 Aug 2011, at 00:47, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Good. On point.

Where do thoughts take place? Where do they exist?

Difficult question to answer.

You want to say in your head, but that doesn't feel right.

They come from somewhere else, some place outside of me and this space and time.


On 5 Aug 2011, at 01:14, Thassadit wrote:

Yes, but now see how things get fuzzy and words like "feels" come in?

Where in reality do thoughts take place, including all beliefs and concepts?

What do you know for certain? Would they take place if there was no head?

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 6:54 PM, msec wrote:

Things have always been a little fuzzy!?

Can't know for certain where thoughts take place, therefore can't know where beliefs and concepts originate from.

You could say thoughts are processed and communicated through your head but I can't say for certain whether they originated there.


On 6 Aug 2011, at 01:13, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

That's ok. We're just looking at where they take place. Where they happen in reality as we know it. Because they just arise from nowhere, seemingly. But they're often influenced by other things like environment...something heard or seen or smelled.

But right now we're working in reality. We want solid evidence of a self if we can find it...So,

When in deep sleep, do thoughts come? If there was no brain, would thinking still happen?

Take a look. Where do the thoughts/beliefs/self concepts happen?


On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:55 AM, msec wrote:

I agree initial thoughts ideas seem to come from nowhere. They are then built upon by experiences, environmental cues and feedback.

In deep sleep thought may or may not occur but i can't know as I don't remember. But I don't remember every thought I've ever had, does that mean they never happened?

No brain no thought I guess. Nothing to process thought with, no tool to know I exist. I would cease to exist either in this form or I would cease to exist permanently.

Where do thoughts/beliefs/self concepts happen ?

I don't know where they come from, I can't even remember their initial conception. All I have is the continually evolving thought etc. The layer upon layer of thought etc, built upon as a result of different experience over time.

I don't even know from where or how they came, these thoughts etc. that have defined me made me who I am.

So where is the I/me in all this if what I essential am is a collection of thoughts/ beliefs ideas with no clear indisputable source. I can only conclude that I don't really exist I am no more than a collection of programmed thoughts and ideas that have been set running.

I am no more than a computer program, machine that had been set running. There is nothing to strive, fight for there is nothing to fix or be.

All my beliefs, desires and fears are an illusion for I don't exist.

There is no-me, no-self.

So what do I do now?


On 7 Aug 2011, at 02:39, Thassa Amzwar wrote:


Tell me, does this mean that no self is seen? Or are there still questions?

It's true. Life is living without a director, chooser, or self. And there has never been a self, but look how life continues, beautifully.

Let me ask 3 questions to see where "you" are with this:

1. What is the self?

2. Is there an "I", and "you" anywhere in reality?

3. Is there anything different now that this is seen compared to "before"?



On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 7:25 PM, msec wrote:

Yes I see. It came as a relief to realise that there's no I am that I am nothing.

But at the same time it's quite sad, like a bereavement.

A great feeling of loneliness and purposelessness.

1. There's no-self

2. There's no I

3. Yes everything and nothing is different. The old still has desires and fears, but there is now a background of knowing that these old feelings are nothing real. Desires built upon false ideas who's origin can't be verified.

I feel more disconnected from the world around me. It all seems very hollow and false.

Best wishes


On 8 Aug 2011, at 01:33, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Actually, take another look. See how life lives itself and has always done so beautifully without a self to intervene or take blame or direct things. Just like plants, animals.. everything exists perfectly in nature. Though there isn't a self, there is still a human, a body, brain... a wonderfully orchestrated and perfect organism which exists as part of life.

Is that seen also?

And, ask any questions needed for full understanding. Are there any?


On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 8:20 PM, msec wrote:

Sorry I don't see that.

Best wishes


On 9 Aug 2011, at 01:26, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

But none of that belongs to or happens to a self. So who would be affected by those feelings?

Is it possible there is more work to do?


On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 8:46 PM, msec wrote:

Yes i believe so.

The no-self was seen briefly on Saturday. But there is a lot of internal conflict now.

Thank you

Best wishes


On 9 Aug 2011, at 02:07, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Tell me what was seen and how it happened.

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 10:04 AM, msec wrote:


I was working through the last questions you gave me and it suddenly dawn upon that there was nothing, no I no-self behind what I thought was me.

I could not be sure of my origin where this I I called myself came from.

I felt that everything I believed myself to be all my desires and fears had no clear origin.

I realised in reality I don't really exist.

Then I felt and still feel the emptiness the nothingness that everything everywhere comes from. That gave me peace. But now I feel such immense anger and despair.

I believe and hope that this is just the last stand of my ego-self. I long and have longed to be able to surrender to what is.



On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Hi M,

The good news is that there is no you to surrender, so there is no need to do so. Life continues to live itself without a you surrendering anything. It's all ok.

But this is important. Don't fear the emptiness because it's where the peace is. Look into it, but don't try to get lost in it. See how that peace dissolves anger and fear. There is a profound sense of "Ok-ness" in that emptiness.

Try it and let me know what happens.


On 9 Aug 2011, at 19:35, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Is there anything more we can work on with regard to seeing no-self? Is there more you feel we should work with?

I have three questions to ask if you feel you are done with this part.

Thanks, M.


On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 2:49 PM, msec wrote:

Yes I'm done with this part.

Please ask your questions.



On 9 Aug 2011, at 19:52, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

Ok. Thank you.

Here are the questions:

1. What is the "I"?

2. Is there a you anywhere at all?

3. What is different "now" than "before"?


On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 3:03 PM, msec wrote:

1. A phantom, it doesn't exist.

2. Everywhere and nowhere.

3. Everything. Now peace.

Thank you


On 9 Aug 2011, at 20:39, Thassa Amzwar wrote:

thanks M! :)

Have you contacted Scott at He has the "more to come" part if no self is done. He may ask questions too to ensure our work is complete.

But... because you've expressed that there is anger and sadness or emptiness, I would like it if you'd keep in touch. There may be a missing piece because I haven't had anyone express this quite the way you have, so it could mean that I failed to communicate something important.

Where does the anger come in? Feel free to talk about it?


On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 4:04 PM, msec wrote:

Thank you

Anger has gone, it was born of frustration and limitation felt by the I. It defined who it was, nourished for years by these thoughts.

So when the truth was seen the initial reaction was one of anger " you've been looking all these years for truth and the truth is there's actually nothing there to find". Quite funny really.

I'm happy to keep in touch.

Thank you very much, I do appreciate all your help and guidance.

Best wishes


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