It seems you have a decision to make.
What exactly is your motive for inquiring into the existence of a self, separate from Life. Is it because you want to... have to... know the truth? Or is this a half-hearted attempt relieve your self of misery? Because remaining on one of those two paths nearly guarantees you'll remain a seeker for a long, long time.
Choose.
photo credit: The Decision by Contorted Truths on Deviantart
Isn't it like a catch-22? A person who is more miserable about their self is probably more focused on the relief aspect. Obviously they want to 'switch gears' so they can see it, but it's not like you can just pretend to switch gears, especially when you don't even know what kind of gears to be switching.
ReplyDeleteEventually, you have to get really, really hungry for the truth, no matter where it leads. Relief from misery is not enough and will actually prolong the seeking because the truth will be seen and dismissed.
DeleteIf the goal is to find the truth, it's impossible to move past it.
I often find a battle between wanting to feel better (how could anyone not when they suffer so) and wanting truth. Both are top two targets but alternate depending on how I'm feeling. How do you resolve it? Is it really a choice?
ReplyDelete-anon #2
Thanks for the comment.
DeleteThe assumption being made is that the truth will make you feel better. What if it doesn't? You have to be left with at least the satisfaction of having found what you were looking for.... the truth.
I realised something and felt I had to write it here.
ReplyDeleteThere is a reason why the search for truth must come first instead of the desire to feel better. And why the two aren't always compatible.
When you search for the truth a lot of fear can arise. If the desire for feeling better trumps that of truth then you will simply not go all the way. You go to a point where fear arises, maybe a little further into that fear, but because of the desire to feel better you slow down, stop, recede a little to where feels more comfortable, to enough fear that you can handle. It's a natural thing to do as the pull to want to feel better is strong. Stronger than the desire for truth.
When you pull back you might learn a little, be happy with your progress, say "ok not this time, but maybe next time". This process keeps the ego in tact. It keeps the ego in charge, it's his game.
But, if the desire for truth is stronger, then you will not recede, you go beyond the ego's game, beyond his tactics to keep the truth hidden.
I see know how powerful intention is. But by god it will take a great deal of courage to bypass wanting to just feel better. I guess that 'willingness' is also an extremely powerful tool, so as not to go forward with the brakes on.
-anon #2
That's an amazing insight.
DeleteCareful of thinking that the ego exists as an entity, or holds any power. All of what you describe makes perfect sense, but it can all be 'seen through'. This means that there needs to be an investigation into the nature of thought itself and whether it reflects what's actually happening in reality.
In truth, the ego is just a thought. Thoughts hold no power to manipulate reality in any way. See it for what it is, and it collapses.
The way I see it is that the ego is a function like everything else in the brain.
ReplyDeleteI get scared that the search for truth will overwhelm and not be seen through, and that experience will persist as fearful, that "i" will be stuck in fear.
Although that is a thought some thoughts point to reality and that's what still grasps power. Thought still has its hold on me.
- anon #2
You may do well with investigating the nature of all thought rather than focusing on the self only. That may help with the idea that there is someone who will get stuck at any point.
DeleteAlternately, you may want to investigate Emptiness teachings because it is a more gradual investigation which does not negate the self. An excellent book for that is How To See Yourself as You Really Are by the Dalai Lama.
I've investigated the nature of thought, but maybe not fully or maybe I've missed areas, I don't know. Any pointers? :)
ReplyDeleteI do want to know the truth. It's fear that holds me back.
-anon #2
What's your expectation of what the truth looks like? That's a good place to start. :)
DeleteThe truth will be unwavering and permanent, something that doesn't have to be 'looked' for all the time.
DeleteA sense of oneness (whatever that is) and joie de vivre. I expect the experience of the world to be different - the visual world to take on a different hue and to be grounded in the present moment rather than via thought and interpretations. Emotionally I expect it to be peaceful with a reduction in fear, especially of death.
In sum I expect the truth to be a permanent shift in the experience and appreciation of life as it is.
too much? :)
-anon #2
Where did you get the ideas of what it would look like?
DeleteI had to think about it, imagine it. the ideas have come from experiences and from listening to spiritual teachings.
Delete-anon #2
Would you say that the ideas have come from 'others' via experiences and teachings?
DeleteThe teachings came first then the experiences. Sometimes I'd listen to teachings and recognize the experiences they talked about too. It's the teachings mostly that have shaped the idea of what truth should be like and the imagination that conceptualizes what it should be like too based on those words, experiences and reasonings.
DeleteWe can notice that our ideas about what this look like are actually other people's ideas. Seeing this at the beginning of an inquiry can be a valuable tool in deconstructing expectations and ensuring the inquiry is your own.
DeleteThanks Delma - I've known for a while that expectations get in the way. Your simple question has helped tackle those expectations. It's hard to just drop them like others might say.
DeleteI've followed a couple of threads of yours and really like how you bring an intelligent approach and how you can read what the other is doing even when not obvious. You are good at finding those hidden sticking points in people. not letting them just tick the boxes and hurrying to the finish line.
Credit to you Delma.
-anon #2
Delma,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry digging in an older post.
But is it in your opinion possible to force a genuine interest? I'm very interested in seeing the truth.. Because I'd like to reap the benefits.
I've been at this for over a year and only in the few recent months have I discovered the meaning of truth. Yet I still can't seem to gather enough interest into what's going on, despite the seemingly big effort to do so.
Is it at all possible to force the interest or might I just as well abandon the looking until there's a real hunger for truth? No matter what it is.
There's a reason real hunger is of benefit. It's because the truth itself is actually unbelievable, not in its glory or mystery, but in its simplicity and surprise. The surprise is how very basic and practical this is. Only someone hungry enough for it will recognize and give in to the simplicity of it.
DeleteYou have to want it enough to trust it when you see it. But there's no you controlling it. The decision to pursue or abandon, just comes.
Thank you for your answer, Delma!
Delete